B2B Marketing Agency for Technology Companies

1 to 10 Podcast - Crafting Copy That Converts with Joel Klettke

Joel Klettke, Founder of Case Study Buddy, joined us on the 1 to 10 Podcast to talk about creating great copy for your business.

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by Eric Sharp

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On the fifteenth episode of the 1 to 10 podcast, we sat down with Joel Klettke, Founder, Partner and conversion copywriter/expert at Case Study Buddy.

Episode Overview

Conversion optimization is the new SEO.

It’s a hot topic right now.

Why? Because it’s crucial. You’re spending tons of money on driving customers to your site. But what good is that if they don’t convert?

Joel Klettke is a conversion expert. He’s a conversion copywriter for B2B and SaaS companies. He’s also the founder of Case Study Buddy, a done-for-you case study service that helps companies capture, share, and cash in on customer success stories.

Joel recently came on the 1 to 10 podcast to talk about creating copy that converts.

Here’s what he had to say.

#1: Why Copy Matters:

Most B2B companies are focused on driving traffic to their sites.

But they spend very little time worrying about how they portray themselves on those sites.

The leads come in, but the message is off. Or their awareness levels are off. Something breaks down. To solve that problem, they throw more money into ads, SEO, and acquisition.

They funnel tens of thousands, sometimes millions, of dollars, into these things, not realizing that they're just pouring water into a leaky bucket. They never stop to patch the bucket.

Copy is entangled in every piece of the conversion conversation. It all starts with the message you're putting out there in the first place - how you tell that story.

You cannot sell without copy - it's the heart and soul of your whole offer.

So, instead of funneling millions into ads, patch the bucket. Improving your conversion rates even 1 or 2 percent is a huge result.

#2: Why Companies Struggle With Copy

If it's so important, why are companies struggling to fix the leaky bucket?

There are several culprits.

First, copy doesn't get the respect it deserves.

There's a mentality that anybody can write, in the same way that anybody can talk.

But you wouldn't get up on a stage in front of millions of people if a ten-year-old wrote your speech for you.

Yet we do this all the time. We write our own copy because we think we're the best person to do it.

Second, they also don't realize that it's more about your customer than your company.

Every company wants to say that they care about their customers or they take time to get to know their customers. But when you press into the processes they have for that, they're non-existent. Companies are funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars into ad campaigns, but they haven't talked to an actual customer in over a year.

Talking to people is hard. Reaching out to customers is hard. So, we just avoid it.

Another issue is a lack of awareness. People don't really know the power messaging has. And they don't realize that the tools you need to put out great messaging this have gotten cheaper and are more accessible.

There are things out there that any company of any size with any budget can do.

Finally, there’s the subject matter expert issue. Sometimes, we get caught up in the fact that we are the subject matter experts. But that doesn’t make us customer experts.

We hesitate to let someone else write our copy because we worry they won’t understand the product as well.

But a good copywriter is a bridge between the subject matter expert and the customer. They talk to the people who buy from you. They understand everything about them.

You can understand your product inside out, but until you know your customer, you’re just making guesses. You can’t sell to a customer you don’t understand.

#3: How Do You Start to Think About Creating Great Copy?

Talk to your customers.

Think about the acronym, BDA, before, during, and after.

Ask about your customer’s experience before using your product, while using your product, and after using your product.

Notice, the focus is on their experience, not their opinion.

No matter how you talk to your customers, whether through surveys, phone calls, or some other means, use a structure to make sure you’re getting good information.

There are plenty of other ways to talk to your customers, too.

For example, look at your reviews. Look for what they love about your product. Then look at your competitors reviews. What do people hate about their product?

You can also watch recorded user sessions of how people interact on your site. How are people moving through the site? What are they spending time on? When they fill out a web form, what questions do they get stuck on?

Finally, you can pick up the phone. Deep conversations with even two or three customers can give you great insight. And think about having a third party do this. It can be hard to get your customers to be honest with you, and they might open up more to an objective party.

Talk to your customers and you’ll be on your way to patching that leaky bucket.

One Thing You Can Implement Right Now

As always, we asked Joel what’s one thing he would suggest that would help you grow your business.

First, he suggested to start asking the “B” question. Remember BDA? Immediately after you onboard a new client, start by asking them one question: What was going on in your business or life that brought you to us today? Listen as they explain their pain points, the issues they had that drove them to your product.

Second, he suggests watching this webinar. It’s a free webinar Joel did with Talia Wolf that shows you how to go from blank screen to high converting copy. So, check it out if you’d like to dig deeper on today’s topic.

Resources & Links Related to Episode

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This post is based on an interview with Joel Klettke from Case Study Buddy.

To hear this episode, and many more like it, you can subscribe to the 1 to 10 Podcast with:

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Of course, you can listen to every episode here on our Episodes page.

We believe a conversion-focused website — paired with the proper traffic, content, automation, and end-to-end ROI measurement — equips B2B technology companies with a real asset to scale their business.


Years in business


Minimum growth in quality leads our clients see after an engagement


Websites we've created, supported, or consulted over the last decade


The jargon we speak (we'll approach conversation like a layperson)